Jeannie Deveraux on PRP v PRP How to find the best option

Trish

Hello, listeners. It’s Trish Hammond here again from the Transforming Bodies podcasts and today, I’m joined by one of my favourite people in the world, and it’s actually Jeannie Devereaux. Now Jennie is a specialist in PRP like platelet-rich plasma and today we’re gonna get a little bit more of an insight because we do have a regular podcast, Jennie studies all the time, but there’s always something new to be learned so I’ve got quite a few questions for her today so I’m really excited. So welcome Jennie.

 

Jeannie

Hi, Trish. Always lovely to catch up with you. Yeah.

 

Trish

Look, I love chatting with you because I learn so much more about PRP every time I check with you and because it’s an evolving thing as well, really, it’s great to keep up to date. 

 

Jeannie

Yes. It is evolving.

 

Trish

I know. I know. So the first thing I’m gonna ask you for the people that don’t know, like, so what is PRP?

 

Jeannie

Well, it means platelet-rich plasma and what actually happens is your blood will be taken immediately, it is centrifuged, and then it is injected back into your body wherever you need the regeneration so that could be your skin, your hair, your ligaments, or your joints, it regenerates all connective tissue. So regardless of what’s broken or what’s breaking down or what needs to be generated, the right dose of platelets in the PRP will regenerate that tissue and it’s at the bedside too at that same appointment your blood has been taken. It spun in front of you most of the time and delivered back to you within about half an hour. So the red blood cells are taken out and what’s left is the platelets the white blood cells and the plasma, and the vitamins, electrolytes, etcetera, that are in the plasma.

 

Trish

Okay. And I know that there are so many different types of PRP. And in fact, it’s becoming a bit confusing like there are things like tubes and concentrators and all that so what does all mean? Like, can you kind of define exactly what PRP is and what the differences are because if you’re gonna get it done, you wanna make sure not that it’s not genuine, but you wanna make sure you’re getting the ultimate the length of your back, I suppose, and result for your skin as well.

 

Jeannie

Absolutely. Well, there are two different types of PRP and, unfortunately, it can never be a drug, so it can’t be standardized, so you have PRP that people are making from a tube, a standard blood-separating tube. Then you also have your high concentrator so the high concentrators take a higher volume of blood from you and they will deliver in the vicinity of ten billion platelets in just one treatment. Compared to the tubes, the generic tubes that are out there will deliver less than a tenth of that dose, from the high concentrator and that’s even on a good day. The tubes are truly delivering plasma with some platelets in it. The high concentrators are delivering a true platelet-rich plasma and that’s why you see a significant difference in the results so you will see in a clinic that’s using highly concentrated doses of PRPs. Seeing restored lost volume, restored elasticity, and skin changing before their very eyes. I get I received notifications from the clinic going, holy, I’ve never ever seen a result like this and these clinics making these statements are using a minimum of ten billion platelets per dose in one session and it’s a very different business to your generic tube vampire facial plasma story that’s out there in the majority of clinics, unfortunately, and it’s only because they don’t know as soon as a mood clinic binds out that there’s something better, they want it. They do want it so that’s the difference. And unfortunately, marketing puffery is allowed so you’re allowed to say you’re the best coffee in Byron Bay. You’re allowed to say you sell the best surf wax in the world. You’re allowed to say the greatest house painter ever and in PRP, they can say that too because it’s not a drug. That’s why they’re allowed to get away with this marketing puffery but the general public now has APHRA on their side where informed consent must be given to the patient so that’s a game changer.

 

Trish

Yes. Yes. And it’s funny because this sort of information is when patients are doing their research, providing we’ve got it to the forefront. They’ll come across its information so they can ask the right questions, but I know what it’s like it’s going to a clinic and you think, oh, my god. PRP I just want PRP and you may get it done from like, a bit more puffery, like you would say it rather than actually, I guess that that will lead into that because that so I’m guessing like, with the different types that you’re talking about therapeutic PRP.
So what does that actually mean? I know you’ve covered a little bit of it because I’ve had a friend who’s had PRP for their knee.

 

Jeannie

Yes.

 

Trish

But how does it all differentiate?

Jeannie

Okay, so therapeutic PRP. How did that terminology even come about? Quite a few decades ago, two scientists Haynesworth and Marx much to the significance of stem cell regeneration. Okay, they were doing an experiment and they wanted to see where the regeneration or the mitosis of these stem cells was significant. Okay? So they used two plasma tubes, normal tubes, and they saw a little bit of a jump in the stem cells, not much, but there was a little bit there and then they used a higher concentration and they used a concentration of one million platelets per microliter, and then they saw this significant awakening of the stem cells. Highly significant, and they said, that’s the dose. There’s our dose. If we wanna make a change in any tissue and have it significant, that’s where we need to start so most scientists know that information, but the general public would find it very difficult to hunt that information down, but the authors are Haynesworth and Marx and that that dose has been proven time and time and time and time again. However, the general public doesn’t know how to search for papers, differentiate amongst the papers, what’s a high-impact paper and what’s a low-impact paper, so to speak. So they can ask. You can walk into that clinic. Unfortunately, you shouldn’t have to ask. If you have to ask, you need to walk away because you haven’t been given informed consent. If you ask for the brand what brand PRP are you going to use on me before I decide to have the treatment? What will be the dose of platelets that you’re injecting in that one session. Now, the clinic should know that and this clinic should have the data to prove that. Okay? Because it’s all published data. So there are two active high concentrators in Australia at the moment, Vampire and Angel they can prove their data. It’s published. Okay? Published data. The tube systems canprove their data as well. It’s published but there’s a very significant difference in the dose between the two families, the two different types. It’s huge but the general public is not going to know if they’re taught, oh, we inject one billion platelets in your session. They think, wow, one billion, that’s a really big number because it is. But it’s not in the platelet-rich plasma world. It’s nowhere near enough.

 

Trish

So you need to be looking at numbers like ten billion.

 

Jeannie

Ten billion platelets. So now that’s very easy to obtain. When your system is extracting a million or more platelets per month. Ten billion patients is quite easy. And in some cases, we’re injecting twenty billion in one session. You cannot get that from a tube. It is impossible. It’s like you kind of income close to it and so one doctor in Brisbane who is a musculoskeletal doctor injects twenty billion platelets per session and his clients have really difficult rotator cuff, very difficult muscular, skeletal disorders. And just one by one, they’re not requiring surgery, and in America, when we speak to the orthopedic surgeons and other types of surgeons. This surgery has reduced significantly using the dose of ten billion plus.
Now skin is the same. I heard a doctor from Melbourne ringing me this morning saying I have never seen anything like it in my life. She’s it she basically is now saying that ten billion doses replace fillers for lost volume for her. It replaces it and she’s seeing faster than anything but not only lost volume. She’s seeing the elastin. She’s seeing the whole face change back to that beautiful turgor that we had in our thirties and forties and this richness and hydration in the skin. The patient sees this incredible hydration at first in the skin. They’re like, all of a sudden, it’s just this glowy, chewy skin that you had as a child is just bursting out and then slowly slowly slowly, the connective tissue starts to regenerate and after three treatments, you’ve got a completed not a different face, but you’ve got the face that you once had. It doesn’t give you anything that you’ve never had so if you want a straight nose and you’ve gotta bend your nose. It can’t straighten your nose. It can’t shape and that’s where you need fillers so you have to need to be an expectation that’s real and this is the difference of people won’t see that if they’re using a tube plasma. They have to go into that ten billion dose.

 

Trish

And so and I’m getting this is where we cover what results people can expect from the different types of PRP? 

 

Jeannie

Well, I mean, I don’t really see too much I’m not saying I don’t see a result at all from the tubes. However, I’m now on the other side of using the ten billion platelets, and I just can’t go back. I can’t I just cannot go back. It’s a bit like once you’ve used a cosmaceutical, you can’t go back to oil and valet. Do you know what I mean? Once you’ve used very good skin care or very good shampoo or very good anything. It’s very difficult to go back to something that’s mediocre or less than mediocre. So I yeah. You know, the vampire facial, to be honest with you, that is just skin needling, skin needling is getting the result.

 

Trish

Yeah. Right. So so the vampire facial is totally different from therapy PRP. 

 

Jeannie

It’s actually in needling that is giving the result and if you’re going to do PRP properly, you want to inject it into the skin. You’re not going to put it over the surface of the skin because it doesn’t penetrate through the skin that way.

 

Trish

Yeah. And what about PRF? Like, is that kind of well, first of all, what is PRF? That I bit don’t know and is it the same as therapeutic PRP?

 

Jeannie

PRF means platelet-rich fibrin and it is also just a tube, this is marketing puffery again so just all plasma contains fibrinogen and when we cut ourselves that fibrinogen will turn into fibrin, this is a natural process that occurs in your skin every time you scratch it, wound yourself whatever it is, it’s a natural process that it converts, the fibrin, converts into fibrin. So this PRF is marketing puffery, and it is the same as a tube without anticoagulant so the plasma congeals. Now I hear and read that they claim that it has a higher growth factor number. Now first and foremost, this is impossible because the number of growth factors is determined by the number of platelets. So if you have low platelets, you have a low number of growth factors. If you have high platelets, you have a high number of growth factors. Now in their marketing puffery, they say four times higher growth factors but compared to what? What do you mean four times higher? Four times higher, so if you’re writing a scientific paper, if you write the milk contained four times higher cream compared to what? They’re not finishing the sentence. Head to what? They don’t even know what their growth factor number was to start with because growth vectors are contained within a granule, within the platelet. So they don’t know how many I don’t even know how many platelets they had. To comment on the growth factor number without giving a number and without comparing it to something.
Without what was your control to say that statement? It’s marketing puffery. 

 

Trish

Yeah. It sounds like good marketing.

 

Jeannie

And well, it’s bad marketing because it’s actually dishonest.

 

Trish

Well, exactly.

 

Jeannie

Exactly. Yeah. So all plated-rich plasma converts to fibrin in the skin. So you’ll see a slight swelling and you’ll feel a gel in the skin a few minutes after injection. So you’re always receiving platelet-rich fibrin if that’s what you wanna call it regardless. Now I don’t like the idea of the growth factors being released from the platelets outside of the body because the growth factor has a short life. It needs to go to a receptor very quickly. It doesn’t have something to go to, it’s going to die off. It’s going to lose its off so I always say the best platelets. In vivo, inside the skin, are released as soon as they touch collagen. I’m just trying to keep the language simple here and how does the enlightenment touch collagen? It releases its platelets automatically. It doesn’t need to be released outside of the body at all. And if it’s released inside the skin, the platelets will continue to release and release for up to two weeks. Once you’ve released them outside of the skin, that’s it. It’s over. Finished. Done.

 

Trish

Yeah. And so how does look, as a client, and how can me as a client determine the differences between the PRPs? I know we’ve covered a little bit of that, but how can I?

 

Jeannie

Client must ask for the brand.

 

Trish

Yep. Okay.

 

Jeannie

What are you using? That is informed consent. But if okay, now if the client has to ask for the brand, informed consent is not being given, so I would leave the clinic anyway.
Because it’s not being within the upper guidelines and something wrong. Why don’t you tell me everything? If I’m getting my lips done, you’re going to tell me I’m getting sugar down or I’m getting dioxane, or whatever it is. If I’m you feel medicating me with a heart medication, you’re going to tell me I’m prescribing this for you and that’s the same with PRP. It’s not a prescription, but it’s still under the upper guidelines of informed consents so first and foremost, ask for the brand. Ask for the data. You want the published data on that brand. Okay? That’s so easy to obtain. For the owner of the clinic, they should have that already.

I can produce that for the two high brands that I mentioned before in the blink of an eye.

Okay? It should be produced. Here it is. This is the plate that counts that’s been published. And how does that how does your tube system or how does your highly concentrating system compare to the opposite, so to speak an honest answer must be given.

 

Trish

Yep. But that’s interesting because I’ve actually been myself and asked, like, I’m just wondering how that relates to other regenerative therapies like, you must disclose genital, which we’ve talked about in sexual health and your hair regeneration. Because I’ve actually after question of someone who had it done by a muscular skeletal doctor. Of course, they didn’t know what the brand was, but I’m pretty sure they asked them and were sort of, like, not really told, but how does that kind of relate? Like, I mean, most practitioners may not know that people are, I don’t know. 

 

Jeannie

Well, I wouldn’t have the treatment for a start. If the doctor does know what he’s using, he or she is using. Well, would you would they ever prescribe a drug that they don’t know what they’re using?

 

Trish

Yep. I’m thinking over the phone with the receptionist.

 

Jeannie

Oh, over the phone with the receptionist.

 

Trish

What brand is the treatment? Or what brand is the device you’re using? Is that how you’d ask it? Or what brand?

 

Jeannie

Yes. What is the brand of the PRP that you’re using? And I’ve done the same thing. I rang a dermatologist and asked over the phone. And it’s like, oh, I don’t know. We don’t know, it’s just just a PRP. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t think it was but they need to give an answer.
I mean, they made it in the defense of the people entering the phone. They may not be allowed to say that could be something that is only to be communicated by the person doing the consultation so in their defense, however, I do know the people who have the higher concentrating systems are quite happy to say, oh, we use this or we use that. They’re not hiding anything and I don’t think the other people are hiding anything either. I honestly think that the practice managers or receptionists may not know. And also, it’s possibly not their job. But it’s I’d say it’s not their job to answer that question but you definitely can ask and they can call you back or email you back and say the system that we use is, etcetera, whatever it is, and this is the data, and this is why we use it. I mean, they’ve made a decision to use it for some reason, and the patient is entitled to that answer. They’re paying for it. They need to know what is going on. What is happening? What are you going to inject into me? What am I paying for? And there are all sorts of names for these tubes, and it’s very confusing but if the patient knows just even just says, do you use a tube well, that’s enough to know. All tubes produce the same low-dose platelet count. All tubes because all tubes are the same. They are made by the same company and they’re rebadged.

 

Trish

Okay. So basically, if they just said we use tubes, you would know that’s the lower?

 

Jeannie

So they might say in their advertising patented gel technology. No PRP company in the tube realm has patented gel technology. They are using the same tubes that you will when you go to have your blood taken, or blood test they are using the same tube. The gel in there at the pathology company has the patency of that. The PRP companies are going to these tube companies and saying could you make me one million tubes and rebadge them under the name of Super PRP or whatever it is and then you line up all those tubes and they’re all the same and you ask each company for the ISO number of the gel in there they’ll all be the same and they’ll match the ISO number of the gel that you get your generic blood test on every year.

 

Trish

Yeah. Right. And so, I mean, we are more aware as consumers these days, but just with someone who’s having the PRP treatment, you mentioned before about because I’m just gonna talk about the results now. You mentioned before about the fact that people are using it and where they need filler and stuff of that. So is this something that I wanna know, basically, is this something that you have to adopt into your aesthetic care regime or your maintenance regime as a regular thing every so often in any go, like, what would you recommend for someone who just wants to? Because, like, you look amazing like, you sent me through a photo. Yes. I’m like, oh my god. Every time I see this woman, she just looks freaking younger and younger.

 

Jeannie

Oh, I just look the same.

 

Trish

Okay. That’s true. That’s true. I feel like I’m getting old and you’re not.

 

Jeannie

Well, I would recommend that you have three therapeutic dose PRPs in a row, about four to six weeks apart, and then maintain that have another one six months after the third one. I know for myself when I have let it go. For example, this year, I had a PRP in January, but not another one a couple of weeks ago, and the health of my skin declined and I’ve quickly had that PRP, and it’s boosted up again so I won’t let that happen again. I did let that happen in COVID because we had no choice. I couldn’t go to anybody. But I did notice the decline. So it’s like exercise. You have to stay exercising to keep your figure, to keep your weight. Etcetera. So I would have three, then another one six months later, and what the doctor that I work with, she and I just said, yeah, we really need three a year at this we’ve decided that. Yeah. If we go under that three in a year, we drop back. But because we’re both so busy.
We don’t always get to have them in time. But if you are starting out three in a row first, and then have another one six months. But the first step in good skincare is skincare. Really too. So someone that puts you on a program will choose a combination of therapies, and it always starts with good skin care so there’s a protocol involved in regenerating skin and maintaining the regenerating skin.

 

Trish

And on that as well so we’re gonna have, like, three treatments, six months apart oh, sorry six weeks four to six weeks apart, then one six months later, and then go on a maintenance protocol. On the actual like, if I go in to have a PRP, can I get it done there and then that day? Or does it have to sit for hours or do you come back the next day? Like, because I’ve heard a multitude of different stories.

 

Jeannie

No. You’ll have it, you’ll have the PRP on the day. 

 

Trish

And take my blood. Make me hang around for a bit.

 

Jeannie

For half an hour.

 

Trish

Hang around for half an hour. Do we need numbing in that time? Or

 

Jeannie

No. You won’t need that at all. They will numb, but only in the where the injection point is. There are very few injections with a therapeutic PRP and most of the people now have our technique right now, and they would probably say two out of ten for pain.

 

Trish

Oh, that’s nice.

 

Jeannie

But there’s a secret to that. There’s a secret in our in our training for that. But it’s about a two out of ten.

 

Trish

Okay. Okay. Great. And then you’re gonna go away. And are you gonna be puffy and swollen and not be able to go out for a few days? Or…

 

Jeannie

Oh, no. You’ll be fine. No. You’re a little bit puffy, but it’s a puffing that you like and that last couple of days, and then it’s gone because everybody wants to stay looking how they do straight after a PRP. And somebody has said to me all my patients the PRP is bruising and the people aren’t finding it very painful. When I have gone to retrain them or train them at all. It’s been their technique. It hasn’t formed the product so when I have just refined the technique and made it easier for them, they’ve gone well and then the patient has said, I barely felt that. So the way I train and the way my trainees are trained, we have it down to quite a painless technique. Yes.

 

Trish

Mhmm. Great. And so half an hour away for your numbing cream, how long does the treatment take to, like, the injecting before you walk out the door?

 

Jeannie

Well, you would have your blood taken, and then they would put the numbing cream on and just a little bit. It’s just a little bit of numbing cream. It’s not the whole face. Then the blood is pondered by the time it is finished and made up. The numbing cream has worked and we’re ready to go, and it’ll take maybe ten minutes to inject.

 

Trish

Awesome. So you can virtually be in an in an hour, maybe a little bit more. Hour, hour and a half.

 

Jeannie

Probably even less with an extra reinstalled injection. No. They don’t like to rush people, and you have just had your blood taken. Into that, like, you have a glass of water before you leave. So it doesn’t really take that long at all, especially if the doctor or the injector if the injector has an assistant so I assist some a lot of the time, and I have that PRP ready for injection. Very, very quickly, and once they get into their routine, it’s probably less time than an hour.

 

Trish

Yeah. Of course. Yeah. Once you’re all set up, ready to go.

 

Jeannie

Yes. Yes. And the patient is not disturbed at all. They’re feeling quite fine. I do, myself, need to take a penadol that night or the next day, and I didn’t say that to people. And then they say, well, what now I was finally talking about so whether it’s just me, I’m not sure, but they can’t put penadol they wish but it’s quite a simple procedure. With the high concentrators, it’s not a painful procedure. Yep. Not compared to what I’ll find, my Botox is painful for me so I find that lipstick painful than Botox.

 

Trish 

And I’m not too bad with Botox, but I’ve definitely experienced my fair share of, like, painful injections in my face for shorter, like I was not expecting that.

 

Jeannie

Well, I had yes. Definitely. I have had two in the past but, no, I wouldn’t put PRP. Not the way that we do PRP in that category.

 

Trish

Yes. Because I think it comes as you said, definitely comes down to that comes back down to the training of the practitioner. I totally agree with that.

 

Jeannie

And we’re seeing wonderful results with people who have had filler reversed, dissolved, and they’re quite lumpy or their skin has dehydrated. It’s never a good look. The dissolving of filler and that’s become a business of its own. We’re regenerating the skin after dissolving filler and evening it out and giving it back its glow and these people have just said, oh, well that’s it.
My filler days are over. And, well, they’re just only in that time. They’ve lost their confidence, but they get their confidence back.

 

Trish

Yeah. Of course. One last question, I was gonna ask you to say, would you put it in your lips?

 

Jeannie

Yes.

 

Trish

Oh, really? Oh, I thought you’re gonna say, no. No. No. No.
Not that sort. 

 

Jeannie

Absolutely. So basically, it’s where you would put it into the million water and then it travels into the lip body itself.

 

Trish

That’s how I actually did when I first heard about lip fillers, someone told me that’s how everyone did it, and, of course, it’s not like that now so that’s just putting it in the side of your lip, so it’s in that little rim, so it kinda goes all around the perimeter. It kind of makes its own way through the perimeter, what’s it called again?

 

Jeannie

The lip body.

 

Trish

Yeah. Yeah. That’s it. The Vermillion border. Yeah.
Sounds like commissures or something.

 

Jeannie

But the reason it’s put on the border of the lips is the high dose PRP and the ribs will blow up. Not unduly, but they will as well. Very, very quickly so the high dose PRP will give you back the lips you once had. Now it cannot give you a greater lip that you’ve never had. You need filler for that. Okay? People wanna flip their lips or where it is that is the place for fillers.
If you wanna give yourself back the lips that you want to have because our lips are thin as we get older etc., and you don’t want the lip look. You don’t, you’re not after that big blown-up lip.

Just one of the lips you once had PRP you can use. 

 

Trish

Amazing. Yeah. Because I don’t like lip fillers, but I can see my lips getting smaller and smaller and I’m like, oh my god. I’m gonna have no lips left then, but this sounds like it could be perfect.

 

Jeannie

Yes. But people don’t just come in for the tip of the eye or for the whole face. 

 

Trish

We always do the whole thing. Yeah? 

 

Jeannie

Yeah. And because some people come in, I just want the eyes done. I’m thinking, but if ageing, you’re it’s because your whole face is ageing. Don’t worry about it. Well, so even just the whole face is aging, the whole body is aging so we always do a full treatment and so it’ll be a full face or a face in the neck and a decolletage. We do four arms, hands, and upper arms, decolletages, everything. There’s not an area of the body.

 

Trish

That you can’t do?

 

Jeannie

No. There’s not an area.

 

Trish

Yeah. Oh, basically, look, this has been so interesting. I do love having chats with you. It’s been so good and so the magic number ten billion.

 

Jeannie

Yes. You wanna ask for the therapy PRP and you want the proof of that. That’s part of the informed consent.

 

Trish 

Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

 

Jeannie

A good operator and a good clinician will give that to you and if it’s below ten billion – walk or even below the concentration of one million per microlitre, you would want you’re just it’s not enough and they might be charging less money, but it’s less money thrown away. It’s still wasted money so that could be anything that could be, like, three hundred, four hundred, five hundred dollars compared to paying or nine hundred dollars, or thousand dollars for a therapeutic PRP, but the difference in results cannot be compared. That makes them outstanding. 

 

Trish 

That makes so much sense.

 

Jeannie

Yeah. I wouldn’t waste the money on the plasma Or the PRF, a little bit of a result, but not compared to therapeutic dose PRP.

 

Trish 

Yep. Oh, look, thank you so much. My thing keeps pinging at me saying. K. You have a good day. Thanks thanks so much for joining me today, Jeannie.

 

Jeannie

Okay. Take care and we’ll chat with you. 

 

Trish 

Pleasure. And listeners, look if you do want it like Jeannie definitely knows what she’s talking about. She’s a PhD candidate in medical biology and pathology. She got a Bachelor of Health Science, especially in medical conditions and she’s also got a Bachelor of Science in Biomedical Science with honours. So, yep, she knows what she’s talking about. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jeannie.

 

Jeannie

Alright. Bye!

 

Trish 

Bye. Thanks so much.

 

Jeannie

Bye. Bye.

 

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