Dr. Nik Helping Clients Grow Confidence

On today’s episode of the Aesthetics Uncensored Podcast Trish & Nic chat with Dr Nik, the Director of ND SKIN about hair restoration using Neograft. We discuss how Neograft works, whats involved in the actual treatment, the different approaches for men and women and many the successes achieved.
Dr Nik Davies has worked in the cosmetic industry for many years. He has a wealth of medical knowledge and trained to be a qualified GP over 10 years ago. In this time he has also studied and trained to be a cosmetic doctor. Dr Nik is also a trainer for Derma Medical Australia where he teaches cosmetic injectables and educates doctors and nurses.
Don’t miss this fun and exciting podcast here..

Transcript –  Dr. Nik Helping Clients Grow Confidence

Trish

Hello, listeners. It’s Trish Hammond here and I’m joined with Nicole Montgomery today, and we will be speaking to the delightful Dr. Nik Davies. Now Dr. Davis is the director of ND Skin, and he’s based on the central coast in New South Wales. And today we’re gonna talk all about hair restoration using the Neograft. So welcome. 

Nik

Hi, guys. How are you? 

Nicole

Right? How are you? I’m good. I’m good. I’m loving this topic, because I love all of Dr. Nik’s results.

Trish 

Yes. And I love just talking about the hair and no hair really so I’m excited about this. And I don’t know much about hair restoration. But I’m really excited to hear about today. So tell us first of all, what is the Neograft? The Neograft is the machine that you do restoration with hair.

Nik

Yeah, sure. So the Neograft that is a machine that I purchased fairly recently, which just really helps to get a really good result from hair transplants really, essentially, I guess, it’s quite tricky to explain, but the machine itself has like a little drill bit on it, and you’re able to suck the plant the implants, from the back of the head, and then put them into wherever where we’re bolding or where the hairs lacking. So it’s just a way of doing things that I find is easy, because like things are quite easy. And that gives you really good results.

Trish

Because in the olden days, I remember my uncle having before he had the wig, he had like a hair transplant. And actually two different ones, one that they actually cut out a whole part of his skin at the back of his head and kind of repositioned it, which was weird, and it just grew quite a lot.

Nik

So there’s definitely room for that, which is called FUT. So that’s like strip strip surgery where you would take a strip of hair from the back like he’s had done, and then transplant those hairs or no, I don’t do FUT. I do FUE which is what the neograft is, FUT is a lot more surgical. But yeah, there are definitely places for that. But I think more recently, there’s a lot of clinics that are turning to FUE, which is potentially a little bit safer. You don’t get that linear scar at the back like a smiley face scar at the back instead you get very tiny scars. And over time, as the other hairs grow through that, then it becomes really unnoticeable. So I think that’s one of the benefits of having the neograft or having a FUE.

Trish

Let’s say I’m like, and I know this is for men and for women.  So for example, I tend to like I’ve got a I haven’t got a bald patch, but I kind of have really thinning fine here as a top and I actually had it like that. And I was really young and I’ve always been really phobic about it. But there’s never a sort of psychology. I think it’s called a trichologist or something like that. I don’t even know those names, but anyway, yeah, that’s like gonna call it a bit here anyway. And they were sort of like there’s nothing that you can do. So if I had that issue, I could actually come and have a Neograft treatment. So what would you do? What would you shave that area first? Or how does it work?

Nik

Like being a doctor, you have to look at the whole picture. So it’s not really like you just come in to see Dr. Nik and then before you know it, you’re having a hair transplant or surgery, because we have to think about why is the patient, why is the man going bald? Why is the woman going bald like there’s there’s certain things that we know that we can help not just surgically but medically so quite often when the patient comes in and they have a consult, they end up being put on some sort of medication, which helps because often you don’t, you don’t just jump straight to surgery that’s the last resort because at the end of the day, you only really want to do that once you want to you want to give the patient a chance really to have some medications, which can often help and often take them to like a point years down the line and before they need to go down the transplantation of the surgical route. So it’s not like you would immediately go for that so often people do and they just want they just want the results. They want to do that they’re not interested in medications but have to kind of talk them around to even if you do have a hair transplant more often than not, especially for men, we do have to give them some medication to stop the hairs that haven’t been transplanted from falling out and quite often that’s an education thing like to teach the patient that before going straight into the surgical method.

Trish

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Although I’d be the one like yep, not just give me surgery, make it happen now. How would that be a quick fix? So what’s the process like? So for example, if you know, all other avenues have been, no, this is the option for you. What’s the process from a patient perspective? Like is there anything to do to prepare before you have a procedure done? And like, how long does it take and all that sort of thing?

Nik

Well, look, it’s to put it in a simplified way. So it’s a long day, put it that way, like the procedure takes a full day. And it’s either you love it or you hate it, because it’s quite a tiresome day. So the patient turns up very early, I get them to come in and maybe at seven o’clock in the morning, 7:30am. And let’s just take a man – because most of the procedures that we do are on men, so more than 80% in my clinic. So he comes in, we sign the consent forms, I get a perioperative antibiotic for the patient, something like Valium. Then once we’re ready to get going in all the equipment set up because there’s a lot of equipment going on so often the night before we’ll set up and work with a team of at least two technicians and my nurse as well. So a patient comes in, we shave the back of the head, which is called the donor site, the back of the head is where we get the harvest from so if you think of the the balding man, where’s the last place in the head for the hair to follow is the back so it’s the back of the scalp. So that’s where we take the hair from. Okay, so once we’ve shaved the back of the head, we can then lay the patient face down on the bed. And then we give a ring block of anesthetic usually, so we give anesthetic in a ring form around the heart or the X the site where we’re going to take all the hairs and we let that go numb. After we’ve thoroughly cleaned the area we start to get we started to use the Neograft to essentially drill with a vacuum each individual follicle so on the end of the neograft, there’s a small circular drill bit, which is about point nine to one millimeter in diameter. We’ve got a foot pedal so as I press the foot pedal, the drill bits drills around the hair follicle goes down a certain depth, and then the vacuum sucks that little follicle into a canister. And once we’ve got a few 100 of them bear in mind, we could be doing like a few 1000 we empty that canister and the technician or the nurse starts to sort through them and just separate the follicles and to say like a follicle with one hair follicle with two hair and a follicle with three plus. And then you know that that procedure could pull that part of the procedure can last maybe two to three hours, we have a lunch break, we can set the patient up, give them a bit of a rest, it’s a long time to sit on your front. Going through all this, then this is the part where the procedure starts to get a bit easier so we flipped the patient over and now they’re laying on the front of the bed. I’ve actually got Netflix on the TV on the wall. So once we’ve unleashed the day, say that say we’re doing the receding hairline and we’ve got that all nice and numb, the patient can relax, there’s a lot going on still because that’s when the implantation starts. And we’ve got potentially me and one side technician and my nurse on the other side and then we start to just individually put the hairs into where we have decided that their new homes are going to be so it takes a long, long time. It’s a long day, it has a bit of your title, certain parts of the procedure I love and then other parts I don’t love so much. But I think for me what really is the clincher for me is just seeing the results because it is life changing at the end of the day because a lot of these people like they’re at home. They’ve told me they’re scared to go out. I had a lady who actually quit her job because she didn’t want to face going into work every day because of the receding hairline that she’s had. I’ve had men coming in saying that they always wear a hat and they never go out without wearing a hat. It just gets to them. It gets them down so much so being able to change that is the most rewarding thing, like that’s why I got into aesthetics in the first place, I’m an injector as well and being able to give your patients their confidence back that just, it’s just so fantastic for me.

Trish

I agree. And the whole industry is full of people who can have treatments to fix things that have caused them grief for all their life. And a lot of people don’t even know that this stuff is available, like you’re at time and time again, and life changing because you feel good about yourself, and it just changes your whole aspect of life. And look, going back to that I was going to ask you about whether they can watch TV while you’re doing it so it sounds like it doesn’t sound like the most uncomfortable thing. It’s not like you’ve got to be doing anything actively. You’re just lying there and you’ve got your thing. So just I want to clarify, when you say, you shave that bit so the reason you have to shave the head is because you kind of pull the follicle out from like you pull it all out completely. Is that right? They ever grow back?

Nik

If you think about it, we’ve got essentially binoculars on so we’re looking at the follicles and in the magnification of between two and four times. So we have to shave the hair to like a number zero. So that we can, you don’t want to hear to kind of flap around where you’re when you’re trying to drill through because you have to also just drill very precisely in the same angle as the hairs growing out. Or else you transact the hair, and then the follicles are not going to grow, so essentially it’s dead. So that’s very important as well, because we want to get the best rate or the most viable follicles so that, you know, they get more at the end of the day. So shaving the head, it is impossible to do it without it at the back. And when you say will it grow back, so if you imagine a square, say, a square centimeter, we’re only going to take a maximum 20% of the hairs. So because we’re only drilling here, one millimeter follicle when the rest of the hair starts to grow through, you don’t see those little scars, whereas you’re probably like, you know, half a millimeter that absolutely tiny by the time that you know the shrink. 

Nicole

Yep. Yeah, Dr. Nik, I want to ask you, can you see my screen? If you Google bad hair plugs, I mean, the word plugs doesn’t sound good in that you find images like these, which look terrible. But have you ever seen someone in real life that has these hair plugs?

Nik

I’ve seen a couple of people because they’ve approached me after they’ve had bald hair.

Nicole

I think this is worse than having a hair plug is worse than being bald.

Nik

Yeah, what you’re showing me looks like the old style of what the yesterday so what they used to do is kinda like a punch biopsy. So when you go to the doctor, you may or may not know about a deal of skin cancer, where can we use those punch biopsies. So they’re a lot bigger in diameter. And what they use to do that so they first started to do it as they were just punched some hairs from the back of the head and then just punched them into the front and it just looks terrible. It’s so obvious. And yeah, but once you’ve done that, I think that’s really, really tricky to fix.

Nicole

Yeah, yeah. I think that it’s scary. The word plugs in. And I guess it’s so important for people to when they’re doing their research to understand the difference, because you’ve said FUE, FUT and then I’m now saying hair plugs. There’s all these different techniques. How do you know which is the best?

Nik

There isn’t the best, I guess you can’t really tell what is the what is the best technique, I guess you have to really like the patient, when they’re going to decide to have this done, and fork out what they’re going to pick because it’s an expensive procedure. They really need to research where they’re going and who’s going to do it. I hear a lot of stories of patients going to the clinic and not being a doctor who is consulting them in the first instance and that’s a bit scary, really. I think it should definitely be doctor driven. I think it would be very difficult for it to be a team of four doctors to do the procedure. That’s why we use technicians but technicians I’m using. They’ve been doing this for longer than I’ve been doing medicine. These guys are extreme like I wouldn’t do it without the specific people that I use and that’s really important to me as well because that’s going to provide the best results and make it safe as well. 

Trish

That’s for sure like there’s an art to it. It’s not just like you’ve seen, I’ve seen some of the results and they’re just astounding, like the fact that you can’t even tell and you just had your treatment, if you remember the receding hairline, you can’t even tell anything at all, except that it looks like your hair’s grown in spots that it wasn’t before. Yes.

Nik

I was just gonna say there as well like that’s definitely something that drew me towards this as well. Not just the fact that it’s life changing results, but the artistry in terms of designing a hair and showing the patient and working with the patient saying like, if this if we could give you this kind of style because we often draw on when they come in for the console and I take some photos and we can look through it together and decide that you would like it to look and and a few years ago, I had no idea about men’s hairline and women’s hairline, but it’s actually quite fascinating to get into the to get really into it and know what’s natural and what to get caught like you know what to look out for?

Trish

Yeah. Have you ever had it done? 

Nik

I’ve got ever seen a hairline probably but not quite early yet.

Nicole

So many women, though, over the age of 40, who have unfortunately plucked up their eyebrows through their teenage years and as a young adult. Can you do eyebrows?

Nik

Yes, you can. I’ve only done a couple. But yeah, so far, I’ve had pretty good results. 

Nicole

And where’s the donor site for the eyebrows? 

Nik

Same.

Nicole

Oh, really? Yeah. What about really hairy Italian men who have hit everywhere except the head?

Nik

You know, what’s really strange about the whole thing is that one when you put hair from the back of the head, on to say the beard, so you can do beard as well or the eyebrow, it will grow like the hair of the back of the head up until maybe a couple of years. And then it will start to behave more like a beard hair and get thicker or an eyebrow hair and get a little bit thicker and not grow as fast. I don’t think it was far as I know anybody knows why that happens. But it’s tricky.

Trish

Gonna be a market in years to come because everyone’s getting Brazillians and stuff like that and getting it lasered. So if you want to grow your pubes back, maybe in years to come, there’ll be a market for that as well.

Nik

I have to say, I’ve never done that, that treatment, but I think overall the demand for it is just insane. I think it’s definitely a huge market and over COVID, I’ve been trying to keep in touch with my patients and just the people that are contacting me through Instagram and the website. Definitely a lot of people that are out there and they’re ready to come in and they’re ready to have treatments done. So yeah, it’s an exciting space to be in.

Trish

It’s almost like when I guess I didn’t remember when injectables first started but it’s almost like when inject when it first people first started getting injectables is like the same thing like people are discovering that now you can get your hair restored and whether it’s your eyebrows because like you said, when I was younger, I used to pluck them. The thinner they were the more fashionable they were which means they don’t grow back. So we started getting cosmetic tattooing but then it looked blue and stuff like that. So like a hair transplant, the eyebrows, but you can do beards and work well. I mean, I guess that’s probably not really hey, do you?

Nik

Yeah, that’s probably it. Yeah, I think it’s always evolving as well. Who knows where this is going. I think one amazing thing that the patient’s reflect on as well as that the downtime is really, it’s if you work from home, you could go back to work the next day. And if you work in an office and a clean environment, you could go back to work in seven to 10 days. So there’s just such minimal downtime. 

Trish

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. So you have the treatment done and is there any aftercare right after. Of course, you need the meds to wear off but apart from that, can you just live like normal, you’re not going to wash your hair I guess for a little while. 

Nik

No, two or day three. So it’s really important as you can imagine, not to rub the hair and quite often will give the patient one of those, you know, the travel neck pillows that you would use on a plane so that we sleep in that upgrade for the first three days. And that just avoids you sort of rolling over onto the not the donor site, it’s going to be fine, because it will just be scabs. But where there are little implants, they are very fragile. So we need to be very careful for the first few days to a week. And we need to keep them moist with like saline solution so that we’re not causing fixed gaps that may end up in an infection, that’d be the most worrying thing would be an infection, because you don’t want to get all your hard work undone. I often give that certainly to the bigger cases and and the older, older patients, I’ll give them antibiotics to take home as well to mitigate that.

Trish

When you say the bigger cases, like how much can you do? I know if you’re talking to 1000s of hair that I don’t really understand it in this period of time, but especially like,

Nik

It’s more graphs rather than hairs. So that’s another thing that I found just with a patient. A lot of patients come to me and say, Oh, I went to another clinic. And they said they could do 3000 grafts. I’m like, okay, right, fair enough. What does that actually mean? So a lot of clinics will say, or will charge by follicle, and then the other clinics will charge by hair, which is really quite clever marketing. Way to do it, I guess, because each follicle can have up to well can have more than three hairs on it. Most of them are one and two hairs, but they may go up to three, four, sometimes five so if you can imagine if you’re saying to people, I can give you x amount of hairs, like how many follicles is that? You know, I mean, it’s a little bit disingenuous. But just going back to the original question, I think, pushing 2500, maybe 3000 grafts would be the biggest that I would go for, because you’re thinking about that donor site, only taking 20% of the hairs, if you start going above that, that’s when you’re gonna start making the back of the head, maybe a little bit more or less dense than it should be in that that can be noticeable. So I certainly wouldn’t go above 3000 grafts but that would be the biggest procedure.

Trish

And it’s like with a receding hairline and you fix it, but then the other hair behind it connects to recede and then you just,

Nik

So that takes you back to the medication question and thinking particularly about in men, what happens, the fault at the follicle level with the testosterone. So quite often, we want to give the male’s testosterone blocker to stop a process going on. That causes miniaturisation and the whole of the follicles to fall out. So your dad’s right. And I have seen some horror cases where people have had great transplants at the front and then there’s just a big gap all the way back to the donor site because all the other hairs fall not falling out. So

Nicole

It happened on beauty and the geek. Yeah, that’s why beauty in the geek and had like this sort of hairline here. And then a huge bald area and then here, he was oh.

Trish

I didn’t think that was, I think that was just his hair though.

Nicole

No, no, he said he said that he had hair restoration that he was conscious of going balding, balding and he really wanted to fix it. And then he had like some tiny sporadic random little bits that were really defined here and then very sparse, and then hair.  He’s so young too, his early 20s. 

Nik

That really highlights the fact of doing a really good history and examination though, because what you want to really like that could be something that is quite easily fixed with medications. I don’t know that case but certainly when they come in, we do talk about maybe getting a blood test, all women would get a blood test in my clinic, because there’s just too many, it’s just so much more complicated. Whereas for men, if I know it’s just male pattern baldness, and I’m pretty sure about that I always want to do blood tests, but we do not talk about things like thyroid, iron deficiency, vitamin deficiencies. Sometimes it’s best just to get a blood test just to check for that as well. But you are right like that can happen and that is one of the risks of losing the hair and in between the front and the and the donor sites but often that that comes from maybe a poor history at the start of it or the patient not taking the medications. So that’s why I always hammer home and have regular follow ups with the patient to make sure they’re taking their meds to stop that.

Trish

And I guess it’s one of those things where it’s a commitment, like if you want to look youthful all the time, you may have to go back and have a touch up. Is that right? Or could you do everything in one session?

Nik

It’s not a refill, it’s not something that you want to have done many times, and you certainly wouldn’t be going above the times but you’re right you could easily plan it. So it all depends on the patient as well, the patient may only be bothered at this moment in time about the receding hairline so you could fix the receding hairline with maybe 800 to 1000 grafts. And that would leave you plenty of wiggle room for them to come back 5-10 years later, and then as the crown starts to get bald, then you could make that more dense. So you have planned that with a lot of patients as well, just thinking into the future.

Nicole

And do you have a reference to shampoo and conditioner and massaging and combing, allowed to comb? 

Nik

Are you talking about immediately after? 

Nicole

Yes, like after you’ve had the procedure? 

Nik

If you would think about the graft they’re not long enough to coml. 

Nicole

They say that combing and brushing stimulates the scalp. So maybe not immediately after but like ongoing. 

Nik

Yeah, I think after probably the thinking behind that is to increase blood supply. Like because that’s what the thinking behind the other alternative therapies are as well. You know, there’s all sorts of things that people are doing though. 

Nicole

Are you going to bring out a doctor Nick, shampoo and conditioner range? 

Nik

Look, do you know, I’ve got something in mind at the moment because it’s not through the shampoo and conditioner. I’ve done a lot of research about the supplements and the supplement and in terms of hair and 90% of the stuff that I’ve seen when you look at the scientific papers and the research is it’s strangely nonsense.

Nicole

Like, I take zinc for hair, they said there’s like it says hair and nails on the bottle. 

Nik

Yeah, but do you have a zinc deficiency though? 

Nicole

Probably not. But I do get a dry scalp. I do get psoriasis. It’s so far, so too much hair brushing it and taking my hair down. Yeah, probably don’t have a deficiency. I don’t know.

Nik

About deficiencies, though like they’re just putting in vitamin D and I’m very proud. Oh, yeah, the marketing is just amazing. But it would be good to come up with something that you know, that actually works. It’s not a medication. And there are a few things out there. So yeah, maybe there is a lot going on.

Trish

Spoken about vitamin D. Sorry it makes me want to have my little vitamin D spray, which I’m just about to do. What

Nicole

do you imagine though? Um, you know, being really young. I couldn’t imagine it. Alfie started balding when he was like 19.

Trish

That’s so young and you wouldn’t do a hair replacement like you couldn’t do it on a completely bald head. Could you go too far? And you wouldn’t even like some men, have what I call the skirt. You know, when you’ve got just the hair around here like a skirt, you could kind of get you.

Nik

It would be very difficult because if you think about it, there’s only a finite supply of hair so at the back with a donor site as that is you can’t make new follicles and this is something you have to teach patients as well. You can’t take medication to make you have more follicles to grow more hair, got a finite supply so once you’ve taken them out, if you waste them, they’re gone. And if you put them in you know you’ve just got to like to put them very very think about where you put them you only get one chance.

Trish

It’s obviously like as I know the training to learn how to do it is intense and I guess you’re probably learning all the time. But can you tell us a little bit about how did you get good at it?

Nik

I think you just have to, I’ve always been pretty good in my hands which is why I like injectable cosmetic injectables and skin cancer. So I’ve always been very hands on and I definitely can’t speak for the other ways to do it. But with the neograft the handpiece is there’s definitely in the way that you hold it because you have to get the angle right. You have to coordinate the angle with the press and the suction pedal and keep your hand steady to go in. It’s just practice, like anything that you do, the more times you do it, the better you get. So literally, you have a lot of time for practice, because each case is gonna take like, six, eight hours or so.

Trish

And so with the patient, so they come in, they have the treatment, and then they go home, you sleep with the pillow under your neck, like when you have a boob job on the neck, and then you can’t wash your hair for three days but then how long before you can start to shampoo it and be normal with it, got the sun and all that sort of thing is there, like a downtime, say that’s not that you can’t go to work, but where you have to be very careful?

Nik

Yeah, so as I said, like, the first few days are definitely the most where they’re the most fragile. And what will happen is you’ll develop like sort of small scabs at the front. So where the new hairs have been placed, because if you can imagine that you have to make a whole an incision, where you’re going to put the follicle so you will get clotting and dry blood there. And then at the back of the head, which is normally the most tender part, you’re gonna just see little red dots, which will cross over and scab. But generally, like people are pretty good in terms of the recovery time, within a week, you’re back to doing most of the things that you’re doing. I mean, you don’t want to do any exercise for a good few weeks afterwards. Because you wouldn’t want to, you spent all this money, you don’t want to jeopardize things. So as long as you’re sensible, it’s fine. And you certainly don’t want to get signed on them for quite a long time because they are liable to burn and then again, you’re going to waste it, you’re wasting money. So we have a like a post care booklet that we give the patients which is like 24 to 48 hours, first 30 days, first week, first the month, so you get all that info, or it should afterwards. So most patients are pretty fine with that. I’m gonna ask a really dumb question. Because it’s due, like say, for example, so that you get it even when you’re doing it. Do you go one side, one side, one here, one side one here? Or do you let them all out? Like do you put dots and megamat where they’re going to go before or is that we use a surgical marker pen to draw the hairline. So say we’re talking about a receding hairline, because it’s the most common procedure that will mark the hairline all the way along. And then we will just, in a random fashion, put the incisions because you don’t want to have a hairline that’s completely straight. If you look in the mirror, and you look at your natural hairline, it’s more of a kind of random zigzag pattern, very gently all the way along. Whereas if we just did a straight line, like enough seen this before, if it’s just straight all the way round, it just looks very strange, very bizarre. So it’s a random pattern and we try and get them very tightly, like packed so that you get a better density. And what we often do is we’ll put the follicles with one here at the front. And then the next couple of rows will go to two, and then the three after that so we work the way back in the density.

Trish

Yeah, right. So actually about those follicles. So basically, what you’re saying is you can actually just pull the like one follicle like the here’s a month, why don’t I like you pull one poke out? It’s got like three or four hairs in it? Wow. Yeah, I guess that’s what makes people have thick hair. Okay. Wow. So interesting.

Nik

See, I never knew any of this until fairly recently, when I started to get into this because in general practice, like my background, being a GP, there is or I sound they can’t remember us an hour of teaching about, like baldness, or how to treat it, even the medications, all that I’ve had to really go out and learn it myself.

Trish

Yeah. And is there um, Is there like a minimum amount of hair restoration that someone can have done? 

Nik

A minimum amount? What do you mean?

Nicole

I think it’s Increased density for like, only a little bit thin? like 500? I don’t even know. 

Nik

Yeah, you could. That would probably be a case where you might want to try medication or some of the alternative therapies first, because at the end of the day even if you do a small case, it’s still very expensive and time consuming, and the downtime, etc. So you might want to just try some medication or alternative therapies first.

Trish 

And how long do you reckon off It’s done that that people will see the results because obviously you’re gonna have you know, when you put it in there’s, there’s not, you’re gonna have built a little sketch, but when you put it in, obviously you can’t see it until the hair grows so it’s only gonna take as long as the hair takes to grow.

Nik

So I will tell my patients and you got to be realistic so that they don’t freak out that they’ve hit that most of the little follicles are going to release the hair within the first few months. So if you can imagine the follicle is attached to the hair. That hair follicle can get shocked when it when you transplant it and it was just released the hair so they freak out and they’re like, Oh my god, just spend all this money. No, the hair is all falling out because it looks great after say two weeks, and you’ve got that really amazing density. So you have to just hold their hand and say, Look, it probably can lie dormant for a few months, maybe four or even six months, and then it will start to grow and you’ll see that kind of little stubble effect after say six months at the earliest. So really prepare them not to see any results for 9 to 12 months down the line. So it’s a slow burner.

Trish

Yeah. And I guess that’s where the benefit of photos come in because sometimes you forget what you’d like before but then if you look at the photo before and you look at afterwards and a year later you might think, Oh my God, wow! What a difference because you know the way you look just becomes your normal again and you don’t realize what you look like before that’s right down anyway, I have nothing that happened in the follicle.  Wow.

Nik

In my clinic it’s not just in hair restoration, but in the injectables are absolutely paramount like I’ve invested a lot of money in my system. I don’t know if you’ve heard of Woodrow Wilson, so since like, before I got that I’m actually appalled at how bad my clinical photos were but no, they seem to be amazing because of his system. So yeah, photos are so important. And it also helps you on the journey. 

Trish

So what I want to ask is, are there any side effects? Like no headaches? Or I don’t know, is there anything like it?

Nicole

I said, DVT from the line for so long, especially an older patient. You have like half compresses or something.

Nik

Massage maybe. Not really. Towards the end of the day, most patients will get a little bit of a headache. There’s a lot going on, and you have had multiple injections. But generally it’s like, it’s done under local anesthetics. It’s not a general anesthetic so they’re fine. This is a big deal, but they’re fine.

Nicole

Yeah, they come back for injectables. Yeah. You’re talking about say, what about my lips? 

Nik

Exactly. Yeah, it’s interesting, because a lot of these patients are men. And then when they come into the clinic, you spend a lot of time with them so you really get to know them. And you do talk about that and then they come back and they have others who would like to have other treatments in the clinic. So yeah, it’s a good way to capture them. And once you’ve done that, then they’re a lifelong patient as well.

Trish

I love that guys look after themselves. Now these days, whereas men are way more than they ever used to, I’d love to stay groomed. Man that looks after himself but I was gonna ask you, how old does the patient like, is there a minimum age where you would do this on someone? 

Nik

Okay, oh, okay. Right 25 and there’s no maximum. 

Trish

So you can be at 80 and get it done.

Nik

You could, like probably eighty year olds are not as fast as thirty year olds.

Trish

Unless the girlfriend you know, baby or something.

Nik

I’ve not come across anyone in the race. He’s had a hair transplant, yeah, but you never know.

Trish

What’s the oldest person that? 

Nik

I’ve treated? Yeah. Probably 50’s.

Trish

Okay. Oh, it’d be like it’d be a huge market. 

Nik

About 60 actually. Yeah, I believe they are the age.

Trish

With the ladies, so I guess it’s exactly the same as for the men, hey.

Nik

Yeah, the procedures are the same. It’s not like ladies tend to get bold in a different way than a man that’s a different leg. The way that they get bald is normally in the parking lane and it tends to be a little bit, because you have estrogen until menopause that’s protective. They tend to be a little bit older when that happens. So after menopause it tends to speed up after 50, but the actual procedure itself is the same. And quite often because women have long hair, you can completely disguise the donor site. So you have to shave the back of your head. But if you pull the hair that’s normally covering that up, up to the top, then shave the back of the head, then after you finish the procedure, you can just put the hair back down and you would not know. Yeah, you would say but you I mean, sorry, the the implantation site, but you would never know that they’ve had anything done if you look from the back.

Trish

Yeah. And so Can this be used just for hair thinning? So say, for example, you know, like, if I wanted to, you know, like, if I wanted to sort of like feeling bits in my head up here, or whatever, could could you could you do that? So it’s like, as you get older women, sometimes you get in here, can you just like do it in bulk your hair up a bit?

Nik

Yeah, absolutely. So we just call it increasing density. So it is a lot more time consuming for women, especially when they don’t normally want to shave their head and quite rightly so at the front. So you have to shave it when I know it. What I’m seeing is that they don’t want to do that and quite rightly so. Whereas men are okay to do that most of the time, and it makes it a lot easier but if you can imagine you’re trying to implant hairs around long hairs. So you have to keep the hair really wet and pull it back and then implant and the procedure. It tends to take a lot, a lot longer. But it definitely can be done, especially for women. 

Trish

Yeah, got it.

Nicole

Wow. So Dr. Nik, where can we find your before and after photos?

Nik

So if you go onto my website, or my Instagram, there are plenty of photos out there. It’s one of these things, it’s quite a private thing. So not everybody wants to share their photos, although I’ve got some of the more recent ones that I finally got my act together and started my website a little bit. So I’ve got some more on my website, which is www.ndskinco.com.au. Or you can find me on Instagram @ndskinco. 

Nicole

And do you predict when the lockdown is going to end? And I actually have a treatment?

Nik

I thought you were gonna say that. Ah, who knows? I’m hoping that when we get to 70% hopefully there might be some sort of leniency for the vaccinated people maybe. 

Nicole

And are you vaccinated? 

Nik

I am vaccinated? Yes, yeah, I’ve been fully vaccinated for a while. No, so I’m just biding my time to get back to work because it was only well, I was gonna say there’s only so much golf you can play, but actually, I’ve been really enjoying it, probably only only so much wine you can drink.

Nicole

Will it make a difference to you if a patient is or isn’t vaccinated? 

Nik

Oh, that’s a tricky question. 

Nicole

And then I asked a doctor the other day, and he was saying that all of his staff are vaccinated. And I said, Are you going to use that like for your marketing? And he said, well, yes, double edged sword because they repel people who maybe hesitant or on the fence or against vaccines and then people who are may, yeah.

Nik

I think he’s totally right because what I predict is happening is that you’re going to kind of divide the community into the vaccinated and the unvaccinated and the way that the pressures on the unvaccinated people that they’re going to just feel that they’re going to be very disgruntled when things like you were our work opens up, and then they’re not allowed to come in, because I’ve got a feeling that the government are going to say, right? You can go and see the hairdresser or the beauty salon xyz but you’ve got to have two vaccines. So although it’s not my fault, I can feel that we’re probably going to get quite a lot of pushback about that. Yeah.

Nicole

He said, I’m gonna say that either which way because I feel that the government will make a decision. And then of course, I will just have to follow that.

Nik

Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m thinking as well. I think it’s gonna be really tough.

Nicole

It has been a long time. They’ve been a procedure with somebody who potentially has COVID.

Nik

I know and then do you make your patient have a COVID test prior? That’s another thing. I mean, I think in the UK, obviously being from the UK, what goes on there so they’ve got the rapid on antigen testing. And they are thinking about bringing that here. But as far as I’m aware, it’s not FDA approved so we can’t use them yet but that would be a really good tool.

Nicole

I know for surgeries, you have to be tested for here. But I mean, gosh, could you imagine making people go to get COVID tests? Four days before, Oh, my goodness.

Trish

It’s just become normal, though. It’ll just become our normal and yeah, like you said, there’ll be legislation and you’ll just have to follow it and you won’t even have to, you know,

Nicole

I couldn’t imagine laying face down doing a procedure that long wearing a mask.

Nik

Yeah, well, we wear masks anyway for the whole procedure, so I thought, what were the masks they used? Yeah, the patient lying down wearing a mask? Oh, God. Yeah, that would be good. No, oh, we’ll just watch this space, I guess would you at all? 

Nicole

Probably. Yeah. I found it interesting.

Trish

I haven’t got any extra one more little question. You mentioned before about men not worrying about shaving their hair? So where you put the follicle and you don’t have to shave that area, do you? But you can just or do you, you’re talking about for a woman named before the men shave the front.

Nik

The men are, the easiest way to do it is to ask the man just to shave his head and 80% of men will just take the hit and do it because what I normally say is it’s going to be like an hour, an hour and a half less than the chair and you get better results or when they weigh that up with comfort and, and the cost involved the generally they’ll shave their head. But for a woman, you just have to just suck up and it’s just gonna take a little bit more time. 

Nicole

I have a silly question. You said one Trish.

Trish 

I had one more. I just don’t know that gray hair. Like, can you transplant gray hair?

Nik

Yeah, that’s harder to see under the microscope. So sometimes you have to dye it. But yeah, we can. 

Trish 

Okay.

Nicole

My silly question was does it matter if it’s summer or winter? Because I feel like my hair grows faster in summer? 

Nik

Does what matter? What do you mean? 

Nicole

Like is there a better season to have, you know, like, Hey, you always get your like, pigmentation done in winter? Is it better to have your hair restoration done in summer? Because it can have the sun and it grows faster?

Nik

Really particularly matters. I don’t think it particularly matters when you get it done, to be honest, in terms of results.

Trish

Your hair grow quicker in the summer?

Nicole

oops I swear it does, yes. 

Trish

I don’t know about that, is that true? Was that outline or young wise tell?

Nik

Maybe somebody else can tell me if there’s a reason for that. 

Trish

We’re gonna say thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. It’s been really interesting. It’s definitely given me a whole bit of insight. And I love the fact that it’s, it’s like a holistic treatment. Like you don’t just say I want to have a hair restoration book and go and have a neograft treatment. The fact that you take them from the beginning you hold their hand and it’s like a process you know, and it could be this or you may not need this. So it’s good to know that there’s stuff out there. It’s good to know that there’s people that just specialize in it like I love that.

Nik

Yeah, I love it and it’s a very, very interesting area and I’m glad to be a part of it. Yeah, thanks very much for having me on. I really enjoyed it.

Trish

Oh, pleasure. Thank you. So listeners, if you do want to get in contact with Dr. Nik, you just got to check him out on Instagram so it’s @ndskinco and for the website it’s ndskinco.com.au. Yes. Lovely. Thanks so much for joining us. Bye bye bye.

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Well, like all good quickies it's time to dust off and get back to our day jobs! If you liked the podcast please rate us because we need the validation for our fragile hearts. If you have a story to share or have a burning question you would like us to cover please slide into our DM’s on Instagram at @transformingbodiespodcast. Stay positive, keep your boobs and chins high until we chat again xoxo Trish